NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295: Leading the Pack
by Derek Wilson on January 12, 2009 5:15 PM EST- Posted in
- GPUs
Final Words
We'll start with NVIDIA vs. NVIDIA and move on from there. The GeForce GTX 295 performed pretty much where we expected: between the GTX 260 SLI and the GTX 280 SLI setups. In some games, the GTX 295 performed very nearly at GTX 260 performance, indicating a bottleneck somewhere in memory bandwidth or with the ROPs. Because the clock speeds and hardware widths are the same, on GTX 295 and 260 SLI games limited by memory performance or ROP performance will run fairly similarly. In cases where shader performance was more important we saw more separation, but the clock speed, memory bandwidth and ROP advantage of the GTX 280 SLI system consistently outpaced the GTX 295 by a good margin.
When it comes to how the GTX 295 stacks up against NVIDIA's current line up, it's closer to a single card GTX 260 SLI than anything else. Putting two GTX 260 core 216 cards in SLI will get a little closer, but since the 295 will still have an advantage in shader power we can't expect the gap to disappear. Those who already have a GTX 260 or two will not really be interested in the GTX 295 as an upgrade option, as GTX 260 SLI is very much close enough to GTX 295 performance.
Comparing NVIDIA to AMD, it's clear that NVIDIA has recaptured the halo product at least in the majority of tests we ran in this snapshot of performance. We are noticing a trend that has some games heavily favoring one architecture or another, which makes general recommendations harder than usual. But the advantage this time around is certainly with NVIDIA. The Radeon HD 4870 1GB still hangs on competitively, but SLI wins out over CrossFire.
Though we are using the 8.12 hotfix that improves game performance and (as far as we've noticed) stability on Intel Core i7 systems, we can't be sure when this hotfix will make it into a WHQL driver. We've spent a good deal of time being hard on AMD for their driver support lately. As we've said since the launch of the R700, the success or failure of AMD's new direction for their highest end parts depends entirely on the ability of their driver team to make sure the experience and performance are top notch on single-card dual-GPU platforms. This includes having support in at least beta driver as the launch of new games and having high quality support for all new hardware platforms released. It is also imperative that all fixes in any beta or hotfix driver make it into the very next WHQL driver.
NVIDIA has the advantage on the highest end single card product, but we don't see this as a boon for anyone but people running 30" displays at this point. There really is just no reason to drop the cash on a GTX 295 unless you're looking at 2560x1600 gaming. For smaller displays, cheaper parts will work great. It's still hard to recommend buying for longevity because of the way performance can fall heavily in favor of AMD or heavily in favor of NVIDIA depending on the game. We just can't know until we get there which solution will be better on future titles.
While NVIDIA has the halo, AMD's top of the line card is slightly cheaper than the GTX 295 and still outperforms it in some cases. Currently the Radeon HD 4870 X2 is a $450 card while the GeForce GTX 295 is a $500 part. This 11% price advantage (10% savings depending on how you look at it) might be incentive for some people. We don't consider it enough to recommend the Radeon HD 4870 X2 over the GTX 295 though. There are some opportunities with mail in rebates that could net you a 4870 X2 for closer to $400, but mail in rebates are always hit or miss, aren't permanent and not everyone likes them. If the 4870 X2 were being sold without a rebate for $400, the choice would be more difficult, but as it stands, the GTX 295 gets the nod even considering price from us. If you need a top of the line single card option that is.
The highest performing soluiton we tested is still the GeForce GTX 280 SLI setup. And when the GTX 285 makes its way out, GTX 285 SLI will very likely take that crown. We do have yet to test quad performance as we only have one card. We suspect scaling similar to past experience with quad (meaning between 2x and 3x performance rather than a linear increaes), but we will certainly bring you an update as soon as we are able.
Now what we really need are some midrange GT200 based parts.
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Hxx - Saturday, January 17, 2009 - link
Do you actually read what you post or what you reply to? You make no sense sir, I never said Corvettes are not worth the money lol, or that they are a waste of money. Honestly, I don't wanna argue with you, but you surely don't act like an adult, as you previously posted. Bottom line is that this particular card is not worth $500,that has been my whole point right from the beginning. It doesn't bring a noticeable performance lead over the older video cards available, such as the 4870 x2.Now you can act like an Nvidia fanboy and say that i'm full of *** or you can take it as a given.SiliconDoc - Sunday, January 18, 2009 - link
If you didn't post your BS, you wouldn't be making a fool of yourself in argument. Clearly you blabbered out total crap your first post, and it has been utterly refuted, and not just by me but by other posters in this thread.Heck you even refuted yourself, as I pointed out.
What card you do or don't have makes absolutely ZERO difference, since you slapped yourself down and still pretend you can't comprehend that. In fact you can't even comprehend a metaphor - Corvette flunky.
Now, after you yapped 500 is too expensive, you yakkered 400 is not, then you blabbered electric costs don't matter to anyone buying a high end card, which would - wether you admit it or not, include the 4870x2, which you, once again blabbered is a good affordable price, before and after you blabbered these high end cards are out of reasonable cost range, and quacked I couldn't understand such a thing, but I do indeed understand YOUR OPINION, and HOW FALSE IT IS, proven so by your OWN WORDS.
Now, you want to claim all you ever said was "blah bloah blah bla h4870x2"...
Well, you said a lot more, and yeah, you should take nearly all of it back, since the majority was BS - full of contradiction.
Stating your peace without blabbering lies that contradict your former spewing is apparently nowhere in your repetiore of posting skills.
Others disagree with your stupidity as well, and have posted as much, no need for them to have directed it at you.
Let me remind you, YOU blabbered this at ME, you initiated your little SPEW here, and the very FIRST thing you did was throw an INSULT:
" you obviously have no clue about video cards or you cannot afford one, which explains your attitude. First off the 4870 x2 is an awesome card much faster than any other card available except the 295. Second, it is reasonably priced at 400 after mir which is not bad for a high end product. This card can run every game out there just as good as the gtx 295. There is no difference between the two because once the game runs at 35 fps or above you will not notice a difference. In other words, the 16 fps difference in cod5 between the cards has no value because the game plays fine at 40fps. The gtx 295 priced at $500 is a waste of money....................."
No go BLOW your stupid lies at someone else, someone DUMB enough to buy your total BS.
totenkopf - Sunday, January 18, 2009 - link
All of you guys are ridiculous. It's good to see that brand loyalty is all it takes to reduce you all to a rabble of immature E-men. The only incorrect thing here is this unyielding and blind loyalty. Utility dictates that none of you are really wrong, just misled :)The 295 is an awesome card. Period. Even though it only gets marginally better frames than it's rival in many cases, it's still the undisputed champion of the graphics realm.
CUDA and Physx (or whatever) have a severely limited value to many folks. Certainly, one buying this card will want all of those bells to goes with his whistles, but they are not necessary (nor are they necessarily welcome for the debatably small premium you pay). However, there is a small chance they will become widely supported in the lifespan of this card, and therefore useful.
Frankly, I believe power consumption is really a silly thing to argue about. It's not like the difference in idle power is going to pay for the price difference between cards. While I like saving polar bears, they aren't going to influence this one luxury item I might afford myself.
The biggest thing is the price difference. Most of the 4870x2s look like regular old reference boards so if I were to get one I would surely be getting a $400 one with MIR (at that price it makes the gtx285 a terrible value). I think the cheapest 295 I saw was $479. When every dollar counts it's a tough decision of which to get. If you're buying a new system that's a cooler and optical drive, or maybe an upgrade to a raptor. If you are just upgrading that's still a new game or mouse. Maybe I'm just cheap :) The best bet for 1900x1200 may now be the gtx280 @ $300 after MIR before the gtx285 makes it disappear. Or perhaps a $220 4870 1Gb for ~$220 with MIR (Value/performance and possible upgrade for super cheap later if you have the right PSU).
I know one thing for sure: Without the hd4000 series and the 4870x2, the gtx280 would still cost $500+ and the gtx295 would cost $750-$850 if it were produced at all. Whatever team you like, be glad they are both here competing! What I want is for nvidia to actually compete at the mainstream level with cards that aren't going on two years old. I like AMD's scalable approach to GPU's. Their 55nm part is able to perform at every price point. Sure they used ddr5 to help them compete... they were instrumental in it's development, they kinda planned it that way (don't worry, nvidia will take advantage of it soon). I'm also a little let down that it took nvidia almost ~5 months(?) to compete for the top spot AND have it be just a wee bit better.
Both cards are amazing for different reasons... get over it!
SiliconDoc - Sunday, January 18, 2009 - link
Another jerkoff that insults first thing, then red fans boys out, then tells everyone to get over it - after spewing the same tired talking points all through this place, and ignoring the facts and sloughing them off.It's CLEAR you never played a PhysX game, and don't even know what it is. I leave it at that - go get WARMONGER from the nvidia graphics plus 2 site
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3498...">http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3498...
It's the one on top - NOW GO TRY IT - IT RUNS ON AN ATI 3650 at about 17 frames - my friend just tried it for the first time and loved it. IT IS SOMETHING ENTIRELY NEW AND BETTER - no go try it DUMMMY.
As to the rest of your spew, it is clear you're a red fanboy, and can't help yourself - or you're so dumb you just repeat ad infinitum the red talking points of stupidity - like wanting NV to make new chips at the mid and lower end when their TWO YEAR OLD CHIPS SLAP ATI'S TOP CORE AND ALL IT'S LOWER RANGE DOWN.
________________________________________________
How about this raging red freak that wants everyone else to "get over it" - how about we take a TWO YEAR OLD ATI CORE - and see what she does ? You up for it ?
NO OF COURSE YOU AREN'T.
Ati is still WAY BEHIND - they need a totally new core to go anywhere, and without DDR5, they'ed have nearly NOTHING - since the 8800 and 9800's SMACK DOWN THE 4850 - ati's gimped top core.
GET A CLUE.
SiliconDoc - Sunday, January 18, 2009 - link
corrected warmonger link http://www.nvidia.com/content/graphicsplus/us/down...">http://www.nvidia.com/content/graphicsplus/us/down...Hxx - Monday, January 19, 2009 - link
LOL, warmonger is one of those nvidia crap demnos,just like cellfactor, complete BS. Its not a complete game, just a demo to show how "good" and "powerful" - hence the name power packs, Nvidia cards are. They bought agaiea, who failed, and now theyre trying to market this physics crap that won't take off unless game developers are going to adopt it. Since Mirror's edge is garbage, Nvidia failed with their physics, for now at least.IF it wasn't for ATI, you would post in here like a gullable kid saying that gtx 295 is so worth for $850 ( 8800 ultra anyone?). The gtx 295 is the first NVIDIA high end card priced at only $500 - hmm i wonder why. I bet you think that games with Nvidia logo play only on Nvidia hardware. Your friend mustve switched from playing WOW if he/she thinks that game is the best thing ever. Stop drooling your BS that nobody cares.
overcast - Thursday, January 15, 2009 - link
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
I'm running 2 x 4870x2 on an I7 machine with no crash issues.
Now shut up.
SiliconDoc - Thursday, January 15, 2009 - link
Go tell this guy to shut up now, bloviator." I cannot overstate the importance of drivers, and frankly ATI's drivers still disappoint on a regular basis. Until and unless ATI can get driver profiles into their drivers for CrossFire, I don't think I can ever feel happy with the solution. Also, 4870X2 drivers need to bring back the "CrossFire disable" option in the drivers; we all know there are two GPUs, and there are still occasional games where CrossFire degrades performance over a single GPU. "
I didn't see any cards at $400 at your links, either, but one thing is clear - the shabby 4870x2 with driver issues out the wazoo for EVERYONE is getting quickly very, very cheaper for a reason. That reason is IT GOT STOMPED by the GTX295, and the GTX295 runs better in a far wider variety of games ON LAUNCH than the 4870x2 EVER will.
Now it's time for you to shut up.
overcast - Thursday, January 15, 2009 - link
What part of, ($399.99 after $40.00 Mail-In Rebate) , don't you understand?Congratulations to the Nvidia team for developing a new card that beats something released last August, typically by less than 10fps. Amazing.
SiliconDoc - Saturday, January 17, 2009 - link
Here's what you should understnad, we'll take the very best prices we know area vailable, not usual that average users buy from which can be much higher - best savings usually - newegg.4870x2 = $449, $550, $505, $475, $505, $495, $430, $480
Now those are the BEST prices.
I think your lies need some work.