nForce4 Ultra Roundup: Charting the Mainstream
by Wesley Fink on July 5, 2005 10:28 PM EST- Posted in
- Motherboards
Final Words
Our nForce4 journey began at the retail level several months ago with nForce4 SLI Roundup: Painful and Rewarding. In that early look at nForce4 SLI motherboards, we found a much larger variation in performance, overclocking, features, and feature performance than what we really expected. It was early in nForce4, so we could chalk up these big differences to an immature chipset. Now, we fast forward a few months to this nForce4 Ultra roundup, and we once again have found a huge variation in the overall performance of motherboards in this roundup. It's not so simple a few months later to chalk up these differences to a learning curve. We are much more inclined this go-around to say that it seems that some board makers understand nForce4 and AMD and do a good job with it, while other board makers really don't get it.The AMD enthusiast has always been a unique beast as he will readily admit that he/she relishes the idea of getting something for nothing. That is why AMD buyers will never tolerate a motherboard that thwarts their efforts to squeeze even more performance from their Athlon 64 chips. There are many Intel users who would never think of overclocking their chips or manipulating multipliers for greater performance. But there are very few AMD users who haven't at least considered a whole host of options to gain more performance from their processors. Perhaps that is why all AMD Athlon 64 chips are unlocked downwards and only a few, very expensive, select Intel chips feature this same capability. It is also perhaps why the top Athlon 64 chips, the FX chips, are completely unlocked.
This is not an argument for or against either approach. It is merely to point out that AMD users are quite often a different breed of end-users with a different set of expectations of their computer motherboards. Manufacturers who understand this sell lots of AMD Athlon 64 motherboards, while those that don't get relegated to the bargain bins.
As AnandTech has been pointing out since Computex, things are changing in Desktop sales. AMD is now reported to be at 60% or more of retail motherboard sales. As a result, people who only toyed with AMD before now want a piece of this action. To them, we will say it takes more than calling a board an AMD enthusiast board to make it so. So ECS, Foxconn, Biostar - we can only suggest that you need to add features and performance that will make an AMD user want to buy your boards.
Chaintech is a puzzle here, since they have traditionally built excellent AMD boards at a very reasonable price. The VNF4-Ultra is not a bad board, and it does perform reasonably, but it is way below the standards set by the two leaders in this roundup. Perhaps an even bigger surprise is the dismal performance of the very expensive Abit AN8 Fatal1ty. Abit understands this market, but they apparently are having a bit of a learning curve in their move from their recent VIA chipset A64 motherboards to NVIDIA chipsets for A64. Or, perhaps there are other reasons. Whatever the reason, the priciest board in this roundup from an overclocking name like Abit should not be stuck at 50% of the bus overclock that is achieved by the DFI and Epox boards. What makes the Abit even more puzzling is the really excellent asynchronous overclocking results that we could achieve with this same board - but then again, we don't report and compare asynchronous OC; we run and compare 1:1. Perhaps it is as simple as a BIOS update, though there have already been several for this board.
So, out of seven boards in this roundup, two clearly rise to the top. The Epox 9NPA+ Ultra at $110 is an amazing performer with virtually everything that an Athlon 64 enthusiast could want - except official support and voltages for OCZ VX and Mushkin Redline memory. It will, however, handle every other memory with abandon. If you want all that the Epox offers, a little better bus overclocking and official support and voltages for OCZ VX and Mushkin Redline at a little higher price, then the DFI LANParty nF4 Ultra-D is your choice.
You should also consider the MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum a winner here as well. The SLI version of the MSI was a Gold Editor's Choice in our SLI roundup, and the Ultra version should perform at the same excellent levels we saw with the MSI SLI. The MSI has had issues in the recent past with overclocking the latest Venice and San Diego processors, but MSI has recently released a BIOS that is reported to bring Venice/San Diego performance in line with the excellent performnace we saw with a 4000+ clawhammer on the MSI SLI.
Based on stock performance, overclocking abilities, features, and the performance of features present on the boards, we are pleased to award our Editors Choice Gold Award for best nForce4 Ultra motherboard jointly to the Epox 9NPA+ Ultra and the DFI LANParty UT nF4 Ultra-D. Both boards are clearly standouts in a group of very uneven performance.
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The Epox 9NPA+ Ultra is the fastest board in the roundup at stock speeds. It was also the highest overclocker at stock speeds, and the second highest overclocker when the bus was overclocked. The Epox is an incredible value whether you are looking for a board that will run fast with stability at stock speeds or a board that will satisfy almost any Athlon 64 enthusiast. The range of overclocking options and the overclocked performance are among the best that we have seen, falling short only in the memory voltage area, which tops out at 3.1V. The feature set is more or less average for Ultra boards, but the overall performance is clearly standout. Based on the standout performance and solid overclocking that we achieved with the Athlon 64, we are pleased to award the AnandTech Gold Editors Choice to the Epox 9NPA+ Ultra motherboard. |
If you looking to save even more money, the 9NPA, based on the nForce4 x4 chipset, has a street price of around $90. You give up the SATA 2 support and 1000 bus, but most of the performance features are still available in the same basic motherboard.
The Gold Editors Choice is jointly awarded to the DFI LANParty UT nF4 Ultra-D.
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The DFI nForce4 boards were designed first and foremost for the Athlon 64 Enthusiast. The DFI nF4 Ultra is the exact same board, same BIOS, and same performance as the DFI SLI motherboard. The only difference is the Ultra and SLI versions of the same chipset. The DFI exhibits above average performance at stock speeds, but it is the best overclocker of bus speeds that we have ever tested - reaching 318x9 with a 4000+ CPU. It was also just behind the Epox in overclocking at stock speeds. The DFI nF4 boards remain to be the only motherboards to fully support high voltage high-speed 2-2-2 memory with memory voltages to 4.0V for OCZ VX and Mushkin Redline memory. The DFI LANParty UT nF4 Ultra-D is the ultimate enthusiast board at a value price with overclocking performance that will never require an apology. DFI's nForce4 boards have quickly become a legend among enthusiasts. |
We extend our congratulations to both DFI and Epox who deserve recognition for the hard choices that they made in bringing these two products to market. Both companies clearly understand what it takes to capture the imagination of AMD buyers. It isn't just saying a board is aimed at the enthusiast that sells an Athlon 64 board, it is in delivering the options and performance that are part and parcel of the AMD Enthusiast label.
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ChineseDemocracyGNR - Saturday, July 9, 2005 - link
"If you looking to save even more money, the 9NPA, based on the nForce4 x4 chipset, has a street price of around $90. You give up the SATA 2 support and 1000 bus, but most of the performance features are still available in the same basic motherboard. "I think you're talking about the 9NPAJ motherboard, which uses the nForce4 chipset and supports "2.0 GTs HT FSB".
truteck - Monday, December 19, 2005 - link
Regarding the post from ChineseDemocracyGNR on: Jul 9, 2005 3:19 PMQuoting statement from Anandtech's reviewer:
"If you looking to save even more money, the 9NPA, based on the nForce4 x4 chipset, has a street price of around $90. You give up the SATA 2 support and 1000 bus, but most of the performance features are still available in the same basic motherboard. "
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ChineseDemocracyGNR:
I think you're talking about the 9NPAJ motherboard, which uses the nForce4 chipset and supports "2.0 GTs HT FSB".
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I agree with ChineseDemocracyGNR! To AnandTech:
No disrespect intended!
"Sorry to say, but i believe your statement is wrong".
The Epox Model # EP-9NPA+Ultra MoBo does support Sata-2 drives.
I don't know where you got that incorrect info.
Also, i'm not sure what you are refering too about your other statement about "giving up 1000 bus"? It supports 2000 bus.
T_T
TheGlassman - Saturday, July 9, 2005 - link
HTT's multi's were listed in the review.I have confirmed that the Chaintech's 6-03 bios overclocks just fine with single core cpu's.
Phiro, I understand your point, and it is a good one.
For me Anandtech reviews are one of my primary tools for deciding what hardware to buy. I think it is the same for a lot of people. Anandtech has earned this trust. That is why this review is disturbing. The results do not match my experience. You might notice in my previous posts, that I have followed false trails trying to figure out why. I cannot explain why the Chaintech board (and others with experience with other boards) performed so poorly in overclocking.
The reason this is imoportant is that the final ratings follow the philosophy stated in the beginning, that a better overclocker is a better board, because the actual performance at stock speeds is equal.The application testing bore this out.
Us 'bleeding edge" guys are well aware of how very small changes can make a big difference in performance. The fact that the award winners were using bios's not available to the public ( I have just now rechecked) that are dated a few days after their most recent bios, (for dfi, a beta which carries no warrantee support, their last release bios (the one that will be on the board you buy) is dated in March), throws the final results into doubt. In other words they appear to be special bioses for this test.
In the past, Anandtech has been very forthcoming when using a beta bios, explaining why, and stating that the board maker will make it available, or the included features available in a release bios. This was not done, they were not even labeled as beta's.
When Anandtech labels a board as an award winner, it is giving it's seal of approval, that people such as your self and myself will factor in when making a buying decision. The truth is under your criteria, any of these boards will serve you very well. From the application tests, your decision should be based on a) a good match to your programs, b)features you need or think you may need, and c) price. Anandtech's recommendation is irrelevant.
Anandtech's "forum-bleeding edge" audience is larger than you assume in your estimate. The fact that you are looking at an nVidia board at all says you are very involved in you purchasing decisions, other wise you would let some one else handle it for you. "gimme something that works" would be your involvement.
Anand awards have been given to 2 boards that you cannot buy, or so far even upgrade, to "as tested".
Speaking for myself, computer hardware is hard to keep up with, and losing a rock like Anandtech will be a great loss. I hope that will not happen, but excellent sites do fall by the wayside if they slip too far.
Phiro - Friday, July 8, 2005 - link
I think Anandtech has their audience nailed down about 80% of the time - their one flaw is listening to their forums a little too much IMO.Too many people have posted "oh what a dumb review we already bought our motherboards blah blah blah" - a GOOD example of not listening to the forums. If you're posting on the forums, you've probably been here for some time and you're in that 1% of computer users who qualify as "bleeding edge". Anandtech doesn't want to constantly address just the bleeding edge audience - as fun as you can be, you're 1% of the market, and for every right decision you make, you make wrong decisions.
To rip on Anandtech a little bit though, they do listen too much to the forum overclockers. The vast majority of users have NO interest in overclocking. 4% higher framerates isn't worth goofing around with voltages and installing a water cooling system.
arswihart - Friday, July 8, 2005 - link
I think its funny that so many people are now like, "Epox is the best" "they OC the best" "I'm gonna get one of those Epox NF4 boards that Anandtech reviewed". I have told you for months that Epox is nice, and to get the 9npa+, and great reviews have been floating around for a long while now. someof you take Anandtech's word as the word of GOD. That is hilarious and I guess its to be expected out of the mainstream audience that reads Anandtech.About the 9npa+ and 9npa SLI, OFFICIAL dual-core BIOS's were just released today by Epox. Enjoy.
TheGlassman - Friday, July 8, 2005 - link
Good question. It could explain the problems experienced with most of the boards. The chipset will run well over 1000 with no problem, but 1200ish will cause the boards various problems, usually a reset to a safe mode.Peanya - Thursday, July 7, 2005 - link
Hmm I wonder if they tried a 3x LDT multiplier on some of those boards. I'm thinking that's why the Abit wouldn't get past 250MHz. I've not only seen reviewers get well past there, but many users. Some brands automatically lower the LDT for you, whereas some do not. Was this taken into consideration?AtaStrumf - Thursday, July 7, 2005 - link
MOBOs have always been messy things to test, debug etc. The thing I hate most is changing the MOBO, because there are so many possible problems associated with it.I do have one HUGE gripe with this roundup. You chose to test DFI's non SLI board as a control for SLI/Ultra boards, but that happens to be the worst possible choice. Why? Because, as you pointed out yourself, that is exactly THE SAME board, with just one pin on the chipset shorted/cut. For control you should have tested the worst case scenario, like a physically different board (just one PCIe 8x/different layout, feature set) possibly a newer revision. This brings us to the biggest problem with this kinds of assumptions and MOBO testing in general. Different versions, REVISIONS, bios', different memories, variable sample-to-sample MOBO quality, and now to top it off, different Athlon CPU revisions. I definately think you should not have made the assumptions that you did and should have tested ASUS, MSI and GIGABYTE NF4 Ultra boards. They are afterall one of the biggest enthusiast MOBO manufacturers.
If you want to keep your reputation you should definately pay more attention to this sort of things. Don't rush so much! You don't have do a roundup, post individual board reviews and take more time with them. Like you did with the DFI! You should even get at least three samples of each MOBO from different sources and compare them in order to really be able to get reliable results. Forum posts from other people can be very misleading, because of all the variables and skills these people have. This would make you THE BEST ;-) As things stand now, you're pretty mediocre I'm afraid.
One typo I found:
Page 19:
Our past tests have shown performance of the AGP-8x and PCIe **688** Ultra to be virtually identical
Probably 6800 ;-)
Viper4185 - Thursday, July 7, 2005 - link
1) Wesley next time please can you post instructions of how to run memtest to determine the best tRAS rating for your memory. I emailed you in your last article and received no response. Yes, I am a n00b. Perhaps someone else can tell me :P2) I have the same memory as you, how do I check if it is TCCD or TCC5?
3) You don't actually say which ethernet controller is better, the Marvell or the NVIDIA?
4) I think it was a big mistake for you to leave out the Gigabyte boards. For those that are interested in the Gigabyte boards compared to some of the above check out this review.
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=...
Otherwise good review, thanks Wes. Hopefully you can answer Q1-3 or someone else :)
Jotequila - Thursday, July 7, 2005 - link
Hum.... Chaintech VNF4-Ultra can reach 275+ FSb easily, there are so many users here that can say same thing as me....There is something strange on the results, i can bet that other mobos on the round-up can reach high mhz too....
Look this:
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/2891/superpi17hi....
Is with my chaintech, i think that you are cheating things here...
Best Regards,
Juan Edaurdo Donoso